02 R/T with a bad PCM? - LHforums.net

chiefload · 01-21-2009, 09:14 PM

As some of you know, the last 10 days or so have not been good to the Dodges in my household. Right now I am working on the 02 R/T trying to get it running again. After it is all said and done, it appears that the PCM is going bad (similar to what happened to dan87951, except he was smart enough to take it to the dealer, while I kept on working on it outside in near zero degree weather).

Would like to run this by the community just to get second/third opinions. So far, Bill (peva) has helped a lot with guidance when it came to trouble-shooting, measuring, switching, etc etc....

Car died on Friday in the bitter cold. Just quite after a short warm up period (did run rough, but contributed that to the -10 degrees or so), moved backwards 20 feet, forward 20 feet, then just quit. Tried cranking, no joy. Displayed a P0351 (Ignition Coil Primary 1 circuit). Initially no visual indication of happened. Tried to jumpstart, no joy. Eventually found evidence of the 'blow out'. Pushed the car back into the car port. Car then also displayed P2008 (SRV circuit). Went to work and home on the weekend, got a new coil, installed it Sunday night, cranked it, no success. Looked at wiring diagram and read up on the SRV, disconnected SRV, no success in starting. Found blown fuse S, replaced it, immediately blew again when I attempted to re-start. Eventually, disconnected everything on the circuit controlled by the fuse (ignition coils, fuel injectors, SRV, couldn't find the capacitors in the cold and dark, but you will see, those were not an issue). Installed new fuse, without cranking, turned the key to the 2nd position (i.e. immediately BEFORE you crank). Fuse held up. Added 'items' back to the circuit one-by-one. Ultimately had hooked up again: coils on 2, 4, 6, all fuel injectors. When I added the nbr 5 coils, fuse blew. Replaced fuse, disconnected 5, added coil 3. Fuse blew. Out of fuses now. Continued following morning, disconnected 3, added 1. Fuse did NOT blow. added SRV, fuse did NOT blow. So, at that time, I had hooked up: capacitors, fuel injectors, coils 1, 2, 4, 6 and SRV. Added coil 3, blew fuse again. OK, swapped coils between 1 and 3 (with 1 being the brand new one), left 3 disconnected, fuse did not blow. Added 3 back in, fuse blew. Pulled plugs on 3 and 5, compared to 1, spark plugs look good.

Next: disconnected the C1 (tied to SRV) and C2 (tied to coils) connectors from the PCM. Hooked up ALL coils, etc. Turned car on, fuse did not blow. Added the C1 back to the PCM, fuse did not blow. Added the C2, fuse blows. (once the snow melts here, there will be quite a few yellow 20A fuses adjacent to the car port....Yes, I will pick them up then..).

Since besides the capacitors, the only grounding of the circuit that controls the coils/injectors/SRV is through the PCM, and I didn't seem to have a short in the system with the PCM disconnected, I strongly suspect that there is a short in the PCM.

What do the specialists say?......

Thanks all

DrDodge · 01-21-2009, 10:39 PM

ok,, this is gonna be off the wall,, but here goes,, when the fuse is blown, does the dash cluster act kinda goofy?

ill tell you why later,, if it does,,,
ive been blessed on LH pcm's, but ive had a ton of experance with them on PT Cruisers,
and the main test on them, if there blowing the fuse is to disconnect the coil and see if it blows,, if not,, bad pcm,, so,, being a chrysler,, Id agree,, bad pcm,,,

chiefload · 01-21-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDodge

ok,, this is gonna be off the wall,, but here goes,, when the fuse is blown, does the dash cluster act kinda goofy?

ill tell you why later,, if it does,,,
ive been blessed on LH pcm's, but ive had a ton of experance with them on PT Cruisers,
and the main test on them, if there blowing the fuse is to disconnect the coil and see if it blows,, if not,, bad pcm,, so,, being a chrysler,, Id agree,, bad pcm,,,

No acting goofy, Tom. Just a slight flicker from the excess current drawn, then at the same time a 'click' from the PDC, a slight blue flash (remember I am doing some of this in the dark), and that's it...

I see that the main test you describe is the one I performed. And will it is unfortunate, I am glad to see our opinions match...LOL

DrDodge · 01-22-2009, 12:22 AM

the flicker is what i was wondering about,,, time to grab a pcm,,

chiefload · 01-22-2009, 08:42 PM

Replacement PCM is in the car, and the car is over at the Dodge dealer for re-flashing. First yard who said they had a PCM couldn't find it in their warehouse racks. Second yard was about 50 miles away, had another one, wanted the old one as a core.

The local Dodge dealer was a little apprehensive about it ('how do you know it needs a new PCM', 'how did you check that', 'what originally happened to the car', 'what will you do if this doesn't fix the problem', 'who told you that you need a new PCM'...etc) but agrees they can do it with their know-how and equipment. Asked them to call me if they run into any problems. So, we shall see.....

Peva · 01-22-2009, 10:07 PM

I hope that fixes it, Marty - and I think it will. It was helpful to have dan87951's situation going on at the same time to push us to consider the PCM, and now to have DrDodges concurrence - helps give confidence that it is the PCM. If so, with you and Dan having been the guinea pigs, next time these symptoms are posted, we might be a little smarter.

chiefload · 01-23-2009, 06:47 PM

All is well again.... the replacement PCM fixed all the issues. Thanks to all who helped with their comments and expertise

DrDodge · 01-23-2009, 11:19 PM

hell,, i was just guessing,,, LOL
no all kidding aside,, happy its on the road again,,

01-21-2009, 09:14 PM	#1
chiefload Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Name: Marty Location: Gainesville, VA Posts: 792 iTrader: (11)	02 R/T with a bad PCM? As some of you know, the last 10 days or so have not been good to the Dodges in my household. Right now I am working on the 02 R/T trying to get it running again. After it is all said and done, it appears that the PCM is going bad (similar to what happened to dan87951, except he was smart enough to take it to the dealer, while I kept on working on it outside in near zero degree weather). Would like to run this by the community just to get second/third opinions. So far, Bill (peva) has helped a lot with guidance when it came to trouble-shooting, measuring, switching, etc etc.... Car died on Friday in the bitter cold. Just quite after a short warm up period (did run rough, but contributed that to the -10 degrees or so), moved backwards 20 feet, forward 20 feet, then just quit. Tried cranking, no joy. Displayed a P0351 (Ignition Coil Primary 1 circuit). Initially no visual indication of happened. Tried to jumpstart, no joy. Eventually found evidence of the 'blow out'. Pushed the car back into the car port. Car then also displayed P2008 (SRV circuit). Went to work and home on the weekend, got a new coil, installed it Sunday night, cranked it, no success. Looked at wiring diagram and read up on the SRV, disconnected SRV, no success in starting. Found blown fuse S, replaced it, immediately blew again when I attempted to re-start. Eventually, disconnected everything on the circuit controlled by the fuse (ignition coils, fuel injectors, SRV, couldn't find the capacitors in the cold and dark, but you will see, those were not an issue). Installed new fuse, without cranking, turned the key to the 2nd position (i.e. immediately BEFORE you crank). Fuse held up. Added 'items' back to the circuit one-by-one. Ultimately had hooked up again: coils on 2, 4, 6, all fuel injectors. When I added the nbr 5 coils, fuse blew. Replaced fuse, disconnected 5, added coil 3. Fuse blew. Out of fuses now. Continued following morning, disconnected 3, added 1. Fuse did NOT blow. added SRV, fuse did NOT blow. So, at that time, I had hooked up: capacitors, fuel injectors, coils 1, 2, 4, 6 and SRV. Added coil 3, blew fuse again. OK, swapped coils between 1 and 3 (with 1 being the brand new one), left 3 disconnected, fuse did not blow. Added 3 back in, fuse blew. Pulled plugs on 3 and 5, compared to 1, spark plugs look good. Next: disconnected the C1 (tied to SRV) and C2 (tied to coils) connectors from the PCM. Hooked up ALL coils, etc. Turned car on, fuse did not blow. Added the C1 back to the PCM, fuse did not blow. Added the C2, fuse blows. (once the snow melts here, there will be quite a few yellow 20A fuses adjacent to the car port....Yes, I will pick them up then..). Since besides the capacitors, the only grounding of the circuit that controls the coils/injectors/SRV is through the PCM, and I didn't seem to have a short in the system with the PCM disconnected, I strongly suspect that there is a short in the PCM. What do the specialists say?...... Thanks all __________________ 2002 Intrepid R/T, silver - 155,xxx miles 2003 Acura TL Type S - (step son's car after trashing his 'stang) 1979 Magnum XE - 137,000 miles (project) 2005 Escape Hybrid - 110,xxx miles (wife's car) "The older I get, the better I was..." - 'Chi-Chi' Rodriguez "The thrill of aviation has long gone, all that remains is the addiction" - old aircraft mechanic

01-21-2009, 10:39 PM	#2
DrDodge pimpin on a budget Join Date: Oct 2007 Name: Tom Location: smyrna tn Posts: 4,998 iTrader: (9)	ok,, this is gonna be off the wall,, but here goes,, when the fuse is blown, does the dash cluster act kinda goofy? ill tell you why later,, if it does,,, ive been blessed on LH pcm's, but ive had a ton of experance with them on PT Cruisers, and the main test on them, if there blowing the fuse is to disconnect the coil and see if it blows,, if not,, bad pcm,, so,, being a chrysler,, Id agree,, bad pcm,,, __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01-22-2009, 12:22 AM	#4
DrDodge pimpin on a budget Join Date: Oct 2007 Name: Tom Location: smyrna tn Posts: 4,998 iTrader: (9)	the flicker is what i was wondering about,,, time to grab a pcm,, __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01-22-2009, 08:42 PM	#5
chiefload Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Name: Marty Location: Gainesville, VA Posts: 792 iTrader: (11)	Replacement PCM is in the car, and the car is over at the Dodge dealer for re-flashing. First yard who said they had a PCM couldn't find it in their warehouse racks. Second yard was about 50 miles away, had another one, wanted the old one as a core. The local Dodge dealer was a little apprehensive about it ('how do you know it needs a new PCM', 'how did you check that', 'what originally happened to the car', 'what will you do if this doesn't fix the problem', 'who told you that you need a new PCM'...etc) but agrees they can do it with their know-how and equipment. Asked them to call me if they run into any problems. So, we shall see..... __________________ 2002 Intrepid R/T, silver - 155,xxx miles 2003 Acura TL Type S - (step son's car after trashing his 'stang) 1979 Magnum XE - 137,000 miles (project) 2005 Escape Hybrid - 110,xxx miles (wife's car) "The older I get, the better I was..." - 'Chi-Chi' Rodriguez "The thrill of aviation has long gone, all that remains is the addiction" - old aircraft mechanic

01-22-2009, 10:07 PM	#6
Peva Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,199 iTrader: (1)	I hope that fixes it, Marty - and I think it will. It was helpful to have dan87951's situation going on at the same time to push us to consider the PCM, and now to have DrDodges concurrence - helps give confidence that it is the PCM. If so, with you and Dan having been the guinea pigs, next time these symptoms are posted, we might be a little smarter. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. '98 Concorde LXi - Later Concorde EL gages (black) '99 Concorde LX - LHS gages (white) - HIR bulbs

01-23-2009, 06:47 PM	#7
chiefload Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Name: Marty Location: Gainesville, VA Posts: 792 iTrader: (11)	All is well again.... the replacement PCM fixed all the issues. Thanks to all who helped with their comments and expertise __________________ 2002 Intrepid R/T, silver - 155,xxx miles 2003 Acura TL Type S - (step son's car after trashing his 'stang) 1979 Magnum XE - 137,000 miles (project) 2005 Escape Hybrid - 110,xxx miles (wife's car) "The older I get, the better I was..." - 'Chi-Chi' Rodriguez "The thrill of aviation has long gone, all that remains is the addiction" - old aircraft mechanic

01-23-2009, 11:19 PM	#8
DrDodge pimpin on a budget Join Date: Oct 2007 Name: Tom Location: smyrna tn Posts: 4,998 iTrader: (9)	hell,, i was just guessing,,, LOL no all kidding aside,, happy its on the road again,, __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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