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View Full Version : OEM 2.7 timing chain kit - 2 part numbers - which one?



Peva
08-15-2008, 10:15 AM
(1) Getting my parts together for timing chain/water pump.

The part number I had for the timing kit is 5183244AB. The parts guy says that has been superceded by two different kits: 68036787AA and 68036788AA. He said there is a difference in the sensor holes in one of the cam gears - he couldn't remember whether the difference is in the left or right one.

My Concorde is a '99. Which kit do I need? (Hopefully I don't need to pull the cover to look since this is my daily driver - and even then, what do I look for and how do I relate that to the two kits?)

(2) He also said that the water pump P/N went from 4892225AA to 4892425AA - price dropped from $86.60 to $43.75. What's up with that?

(3) I wanted to replace the timing cover (may have gotten bent during oil pan changeout - something's leaking oil - either the cover or the seal - I want to eliminate the cover as the possible cause of the leak) - P/N 4663614AC - he says the system shows *none* in stock. Anybody got a source for those? ALSO - should a new timing cover come with the front crank seal in it, or do I order that separately?

Thanks for any help. I'm trying to get these on order today as they have a free shipping thing going on that ends today.

DrDodge
08-15-2008, 10:22 AM
id suspect that the cover is out there,, im almost postive that all of them are the same up to 08
as far as the chain goes,, i think there different after 01 , and hes thinking of the cam gear change for 01 (left side cam gear by the way)

Paratrepper
08-15-2008, 10:25 AM
Funny, I just started to research this last night. I went onto rock autos website and this is what I found:

Loading Shopping Cart...

Part Price Core Quantity Total Remove
2001 DODGE INTREPID 2.7L 2700cc 167cid V6 FI (R) [EER]
Cooling System : Water Pump
BOSCH Part # 97182
Original Equipment Replacement
* Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 4 business days A
$61.79 $0.00 $61.79
Engine : Timing Set
SEALED POWER Part # KT4000S {Complete}
Dual Overhead Camshaft Engine; Timing Set - Complete; Incl. sprockets, chains, tensioners, arms & guides B
$552.79 $0.00 $552.79
Subtotal $614.58

W3ap0n-X
08-15-2008, 10:54 AM
I just scrapped my last remaining 2.7L engine so I can't check for sure, but...

Aren't the timing covers cast aluminum? No way you're bending one of those...you'll shatter it first (ask me how I know). A seal is more likely.

Peva
08-15-2008, 02:19 PM
Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm not going to get the order in today - no big deal. The dealer is in state, so the sales tax would eat up any savings on shipping - will go with an out of state dealer next week - pay shipping/no sales tax.

I don't want to rush this until I figure out the correct parts as there is no big hurry.

According to that parts guy, you have to go with the later water pump for it to work with the latest timing kits that have superceded the earlier kit(s) - something in the chain has been re-designed - not backwards compatible? Will post with whatever info. falls out of my research and parts order.

BTW - on that 5183244AB previous kit number - were there two versions of that to cover the change in the left cam gear? (Did the cam gears come with that kit?)

LUISA
08-15-2008, 02:25 PM
:willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

DrDodge
08-15-2008, 02:50 PM
to my knowledge no gears were included,,, wait!!!! i just remembered!!! they changed the tensioner !!!thats the reason for the up dated part number, 98-2000 were throwing chains left and right,, cause of sludge clogging the tensioner,, IM almost postive thats it

Peva
08-15-2008, 07:48 PM
to my knowledge no gears were included,,, wait!!!! i just remembered!!! they changed the tensioner !!!thats the reason for the up dated part number, 98-2000 were throwing chains left and right,, cause of sludge clogging the tensioner,, IM almost postive thats itThat first number I gave (5183244AB) is the later kit listed in the '02-'04 parts pdf's - probably with the redesigned tensioner you mention. What we have now - according to the parts guy I talked to - is two new kits that obsoleted that kit. According to him, the new kits come with the cam gears, and that's why there are two different kits - because, as you pointed out earlier, there are two versions of the left side gear.

Assuming that he was giving me straight scoop, dare I assume that the 68036787AA kit has the gear for the earlier engines (like my '99), and the 68036788AA has the later gear? I have a 50/50 chance of getting it right. But as they say - an ounce of prevention... I'll talk to a couple other dealer parts and see if one of them knows which kit I need. According to the guy I talked to today, the documentation doesn't say anything about applications. That sounds kind of goofy.

rrc1962
08-15-2008, 09:03 PM
Maybe a stupid question, but can you just change the chain? What if the everything else looks good? I was thinking of changing the chain and tensioner. The bonehead I bought the car from claims to have done it recently, but I don't trust him.

Paratrepper
08-15-2008, 11:39 PM
Has anybody done both a timing belt and timing chain job? How similiar are those two jobs?

Peva
08-16-2008, 11:11 AM
Maybe a stupid question, but can you just change the chain? What if the everything else looks good? I was thinking of changing the chain and tensioner. The bonehead I bought the car from claims to have done it recently, but I don't trust him.That was what I was going to do until I found out about the kit that includes all the other stuff (thanks va3ux at DI.net!) - for about $10 more (5183244AB kit @$242.50). Actually the two new kits the parts guy told me about (that I haven't been able to determine which one is the right one for my car) are even cheaper: $202.50 for one, $166.25 for the other. Just the chain and tensioner purchased separately from the same dealer (for apples and apples comparison), add up to $233. So in this case, more is less.

Peva
08-16-2008, 11:15 AM
Has anybody done both a timing belt and timing chain job? How similiar are those two jobs?Haven't done them personally, but have read the process. Biggest difference is that wth the 2.7 chain, the intake plenum and valve covers have to come off - so a litle more labor. Also, the chain has several arms and guides that the belt doesn't have, but I don't think that's a significant impact. If you're going to also do the secondary chains and their tensioners, then that increases the parts and labor significantly - $160 more in parts, for labor, the cams have to be removed (I think most people leave those alone).

For comparison, the shop that did my 3.2 about 3 years ago did it for $300 flat labor (it probably should have been slightly higher, but in the ball park). The quote they just gave me yesterday for labor for the chain is $520.

For reference, I asked the same shop for a labor-only quote on replacing the valve seals (cams have to be removed just like if you were doing the secondary chains) - they came back with $640 if done separate from the timing chain/water pump job, "a little less" if done along with chain and pump (that would be on top of the $520 for doing the chain and pump.

rrc1962
08-16-2008, 03:24 PM
Actually the two new kits the parts guy told me about (that I haven't been able to determine which one is the right one for my car) are even cheaper: $202.50 for one, $166.25 for the other.

Did you find those prices locally or on the internet. I was going by the previous post that said the kit was around $550. For $200 it's worth replacing it all.

Paratrepper
08-16-2008, 07:10 PM
Haven't done them personally, but have read the process. Biggest difference is that wth the 2.7 chain, the intake plenum and valve covers have to come off - so a litle more labor. Also, the chain has several arms and guides that the belt doesn't have, but I don't think that's a significant impact. If you're going to also do the secondary chains and their tensioners, then that increases the parts and labor significantly - $160 more in parts, for labor, the cams have to be removed (I think most people leave those alone).

For comparison, the shop that did my 3.2 about 3 years ago did it for $300 flat labor (it probably should have been slightly higher, but in the ball park). The quote they just gave me yesterday for labor for the chain is $520.

For reference, I asked the same shop for a labor-only quote on replacing the valve seals (cams have to be removed just like if you were doing the secondary chains) - they came back with $640 if done separate from the timing chain/water pump job, "a little less" if done along with chain and pump (that would be on top of the $520 for doing the chain and pump.Thanks Peva. I might have to grab some help when I do this since I will be doung the valve seals also.

Peva
08-17-2008, 07:53 AM
Did you find those prices locally or on the internet. I was going by the previous post that said the kit was around $550. For $200 it's worth replacing it all.Those were prices from a discount on-line dealer - in line with most of the other such dealers, give or take a couple of percentage points.

I agree. When I added up the parts separately, I had decided to do just the chain itself and the water pump - changed my mind when I found out about the kit - if I could just get the right info. about the new versions of it - maybe tomorrow.

rrc1962
08-17-2008, 10:05 AM
Those were prices from a discount on-line dealer - in line with most of the other such dealers, give or take a couple of percentage points.



Could you share the url to this dealer?

Peva
08-17-2008, 05:34 PM
Could you share the url to this dealer?That particular dealer is Mechanicsville Dodge - part of Mag Auto Group - on-line pricing at www.magauto.com. *BUT* they are going out of business in a few days (end of this month I believe. They ran a free shipping thru this past Friday.

Other comparably priced on-line dealers with real-time price lookup are www.chryslerpartsdirect.com, www.1stchryslerparts.com, www.mopardiscountparts.com - there are several others. They all are in the range of 20 to 25% off list.

The part numbers for the two new timing chain kits aren't yet in the common database that they all use.

Peva
08-18-2008, 10:13 AM
OK - called a different dealer this morning.

Yes - there are two new timing kit part numbers - but they do go by VIN numbers, so that solves that mystery. They do not include the cam gears [see EDIT, below], nor do they include the tensioner - they now recommend re-using the old tensioner, and I think I will go with that - haven't heard of any problems with those, and for what they cost, I'm willing to risk it.

A few more questions: I want to replace all gaskets that will be disturbed - so that would be the 3 plenum gaskets, the two valve cover gaskets, and the 6 spark plug well gaskets (they seal between the valve covers and the tubes, right?) Any others gaskets (will do the timing cover gasket and front crank seal)?

Is it reasonable to expect the spark plug well tubes to be intact (i.e, still bonded in the heads)? I have no signs of their leaking (and as said above, I plan on replacing their upper seals).

Any other comments or recommendations?

All information and opinions are appreciated.

[EDIT: Was told when ordering the timing kit that it did not include the cam gears. I received the parts yesterday - cam gears were included, as well as the crank gear.]