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Great White
04-29-2008, 12:25 PM
(1st installment)

So, you want a big stereo, eh?

You go through the whole install, spend mucho bucks on a high dollar system and now your lights are dimming like a German disco at night when you turn it up, eh?

Forget about capacitors and high output alternators, your stock alt probably has enough power to run that puppy. You just need to access it's full potential.

You need to do the "BIG THREE" upgrade.

What we are going to do is "double up" what the factory has already done. You will run an extra alternator positive to battery wire, an extra alt to ground wire and an extra battery neg to ground wire.

Yeah I know, cool. But what does this mean to me? Well, the alternator is rated at 130 amps for my 04 special (not sure about other M models, but I think it's around 90 amps or so), so if your wire is rated for "x" amps you can probably see the "bottleneck" in current flow already. By adding a second 4 guage (or what ever you choose) you are allowing more of the available current to be used. Keep in mind that with current, the alternator is only going to produce what the system demands. That's why the OE's can get away with running an AWG less than the alt rating, you seldom have everything turned on at once, and even then, they know the battery will provide sufficient reserve to get past the idleing at the lights in the rain problems. It's a bit more complicated than that, but this will suffice for this write up.
Don't worry about the links/fuses not protecting your vehicle due to the upgraded capacity. Both fuseable links/fuses will blow in the new system in a short to ground situation as that big ol' 400-600CCA battery will make short work of them.

Also remember:
When selecting your fuse, fuse it for the wire gauge, not the load.


You will need:

Stuff:
Wire (duh), whatever gauge you choose ( I recommend no smaller than 4-8 guage as it is a waste of time for this procedure otherwise)
"Soldier on" eye end terminals
Soldier and flux (make sure you use rosin core, not acid core or your copper will quickly corrode and increase the resistance. Not what we want)
Quality battery cable terminals (I used some Ti stereo aftermarket ones, don't go cheap here!)
Dielectric grease (or spark plug silicone if you prefer)
Mega fuse and holder
Wire ties
Wire loom
Shrink wrap (get the good double walled stuff. It stays nice and water tight)

Tools:
Side cutters
Wire strippers
Soldiering torch (and iron isn’t going to cut the mustard on 4 gauge wire)
Wire brush/Battery terminal cleaner tool
Screwdriver, common
Wrenches and general automotive tools.
Lots of rags and have a fire extinguisher handy, just in case……………..


Standard procedures:
Any time you take apart an electrical connection, anywhere, use your wire brush and clean things up nicely. Use a dab of the dielectric grease to protect this clean surface from corrosion when you assemble your connections. Corrosion is the enemy here gents. It raises the resistance as it patina’s the copper and corrodes the steel; this is what we are trying to avoid in the first place. Remember, we want more continuity here, not less.
Wire lugs should be soldiered on for proper continuity, corrosion resistance and strength. Crimping and soldiering is prefered.
And as always, disconnect the neg terminal first when working with the electrical system.

Now, let’s get in there:

Remove the air cleaner, the air box and associated tubing. It all just "more or less" pulls out of the car except for the gear clamp on the air hose to the throttle body adapter box.

You're left looking at this:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-010.jpg

What we need to do is disconnect the battery. I pulled the neg cable off the post on the fender first for safety's sake.

Remove the Pos cable clamp from the battery and cut the heavy pos wire and the fusible link off the factory clamp:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture012.jpg

No turning back now! Before you cut the lines, make sure you get a clamp with enough connections for Four wires of the proper gauge.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-023.jpg

Take your new battery post terminal and connect these two wires to it:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-011.jpg

Now you want to run a second line from the alt pos terminal to the battery pos terminal. Soldier a nice lug on the end of your power wire and connect it to the pos terminal of the alt. Use a split wire loom to protect the wire's insulation from abrading on the engine's metal parts. Also, try to get as much seperation from teh cam sensor as possible if you route it this way. Mine was laying up against the sensor originally and the cam sensor failed one day later. Coincedence? Maybe, but better safe then sorry considering the magnetic feild that can be induced by a conductor and the consideration that the cam sensor is a magnetic pick up. Your choice.....

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-032.jpg

Now route your wire nice and neatly to near the battery pos post while avoiding sharp edges and hot surfaces. Use wire ties and wire loom as required. Run your wire to the mega fuse holder and position it as close to the battery pos terminal as possible. You can use fuseable link of appropriate size if you wish, I just prefer the ease of replacement a fuse offeres. I found a nice spot close, accessible and out of the way:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-052.jpg

Put a nice soldiered on terminal lug here and a dab of dielectric where you screw it together. Do the same on the other leg of the holder and now to the pos bat terminal. I fill the hole with dielectric (keeps the wires form corroding) since these are “clamp down” style cable holders.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-052.jpg

DO NOT OMIT THE FUSE AND MAKE IT AS CLOSE TO THE BATTERY AS POSSIBLE! THIS IS YOUR PROTECTION AGAINST AN UNDERHOOD ELECTICAL FIRE! OMIT THE FUSE AT YOUR OWN PERIL!!!!!

Now, you may notice the fourth 4 gauge wire on my pos bat terminal:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-013.jpg

This is the supply to the trunk to power the amps, carputer, etc. Same procedures apply here for making proper connections and fuse it as close to the battery as possible.

Now that we have the pos power side of things sorted out, let’s address the ground path.

The vehicle (like pretty much al NA manufactured vehicles) is a neg ground chassis. Which means, the chassis itself is the neg ground path back to the battery. The alternator uses this path by grounding out through its mount, through the block and to the chassis ultimately back to battery neg.

What we will be doing is reducing the resistance in the neg path from the alternator to the chassis ground. You can either do this at the alternator itself or you can address the biggest problem, the engine neg ground straps.

Take a nice piece of 4 gauge and measure how much you need to go from and engine ground to a chassis ground. Keep in mind, you have to leave enough slack for the engine to move around slightly while still not allowing the wire to be cut or fall on a heat source. While it’s mot so critical since it’s the ground path (insofar as electrical shorts are concerned) the wire insulation can catch fire. Also, if it’s not neat, it’s not professional.

And we do want to be professional about this, right?

Here’s a pick of mine:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-029.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-031.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-030.jpg

I used a little wire loom and some creative routing to ensure it wouldn’t “bind up”.

The rest of the installation is completed, I'll post the conclusion when I get a few free moments. I just got back off a 5 day flood evacuation mission and I'm pretty tired. Please excuse spelling and grammar errors asI'm so tired my eyes aren't even pointing in the same direction yet! :wacko:

Completion:

Now, lets address the negative terminal.

If you've gotten this far, the neg is relatively simple.

Cut the stock battery terminal off the factory wire:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture012.jpg

(shouldn't be as scary anymore!)

connect it to your nice new terminal:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-023.jpg

Now connect your new neg wire to the new battery terminal using the same methods for the pos terminal:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-040.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-039.jpg

route it neatly along the engine bay, avoiding sharp edges, moving components, etc:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-044.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-047.jpg

Now we need to terminate it at the strut tower. You need to notch the plastic cover on the stock neg cable wire where it connects to the strut tower for the second wire:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-046.jpg

Now it's a simple matter of bolting it all back together. Start with the positive terminal on the battery, then the neg terminal at the battery, and finally the neg cable at the strut tower. Remember to use that good ol' dielectric grease to help stave off corrosion.

Whe you're done, it s ould nearly invisable to casual observer:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-015.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-017.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-016.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/gr8twhite/300M%20speciala/big%20three/Picture-014.jpg

Just the way I like it!

Now, if you want it to be "flashy", just use some contrasting color split loom or wire, chuck in a power meter somewhere and call it done.



Cheers

dudley
04-29-2008, 05:50 PM
Nice stuff!

Dodgaholic
04-29-2008, 09:26 PM
Excellent writeup and photos!

dolan
04-29-2008, 09:54 PM
Nice write-up. If I ever have a need for big three this is where i'll come!

paintballdude05
04-29-2008, 10:27 PM
(1st installment)
I just got back off a 5 day flood evacuation mission and I'm pretty tired. Please excuse spelling and grammar errors asI'm so tired my eyes aren't even pointing in the same direction yet! :wacko:


Were about's? Northern Ontario?

ozzy
04-29-2008, 10:39 PM
First of all, very nice write up, I was very impressed with it.

I want to do this also, quick question, do you know if there is enough room under the plenum to route the positive wire? I wanted to keep it clean and thought if I just lifted the plemun or put on my new one if there was room for the wire.

I guess I can just try it and find out.

00R/T
04-29-2008, 10:52 PM
First of all, very nice write up, I was very impressed with it.

I want to do this also, quick question, do you know if there is enough room under the plenum to route the positive wire? I wanted to keep it clean and thought if I just lifted the plemun or put on my new one if there was room for the wire.

I guess I can just try it and find out.

I think it can fit, but not without lifting the plenum up. The stock cable has to stay in there too because it's in a loom with other wires. That makes less room. I ran mine under the radiator support. It's out of the way and nice and secure.

TrepBoy
04-30-2008, 04:56 AM
Thanks GW!!!! You just saved me some money!

Great White
04-30-2008, 08:01 AM
Were about's? Northern Ontario?

Yup. fort albany, moosfactory, moosenie, etc.

First of all, very nice write up, I was very impressed with it.

I want to do this also, quick question, do you know if there is enough room under the plenum to route the positive wire? I wanted to keep it clean and thought if I just lifted the plemun or put on my new one if there was room for the wire.

I guess I can just try it and find out.

Yes, I justr threaded it behind the front of the intake following the stock pos wire. As mentioned, keep t away from the cam sensor just in case....

Great White
05-01-2008, 08:36 AM
Updated and finished.

Sticky it if you feel it's good enough.

Cheers

Great White
05-01-2008, 03:17 PM
Thanks GW!!!! You just saved me some money!

umm, How?

And do I get a commission?

:)

hardwareguy
06-21-2008, 07:18 PM
For American Wire Gauge (AWG), smaller numbers equal bigger wire.

Stock alt wire is 6AWG...... fuse link is 10AWG. As a general rule, fuse links are 4 gauges smaller than the wire they protect.

41A on 12AWG? That's really pushing things.... maybe in bursts for REALLY short lengths. In cars with lengths under 16 feet or so, it's generally limited to 30A. In houses, 20A is the max.

Where did you get that cool maxi fuse holder?

Great White
06-21-2008, 08:19 PM
For American Wire Gauge (AWG), smaller numbers equal bigger wire.

Um, yeah it is, your point?

Stock alt wire is 6AWG...... fuse link is 10AWG. As a general rule, fuse links are 4 gauges smaller than the wire they protect.

Whatch gettin at? The fueable link thing is common knowledge..........

41A on 12AWG? That's really pushing things.... maybe in bursts for REALLY short lengths. In cars with lengths under 16 feet or so, it's generally limited to 30A. In houses, 20A is the max.

Max rated.

Where did you get that cool maxi fuse holder?


Local parts store.

hardwareguy
06-22-2008, 07:13 PM
I was getting at a typo in the how to....... you stated that the fusible link was bigger than the actual wire itself.

Sorry....just trying to help.

Great White
06-22-2008, 07:21 PM
I was getting at a typo in the how to....... you stated that the fusible link was bigger than the actual wire itself.

Sorry....just trying to help.

Ooopps, you're right there. I missed that one. Dyslexia kicking in in my old age it seems......

Next time, just say so, OK?

TERMINATOR101CA
06-22-2008, 08:10 PM
Ooopps, you're right there. I missed that one. Dyslexia kicking in in my old age it seems......

Next time, just say so, OK?

It's just that we "respect":beatdeadhorse: our elders around here........

tooch
06-22-2008, 08:33 PM
Great post!

dudley
06-22-2008, 08:33 PM
How much you figure you got into this mod BJ?? Cash wise. I see you got some blood invested.

ozzy
06-22-2008, 08:51 PM
I went to my audio place and they hooked me up with 8’ of 0, and two 5’ of 4. I then got all of the end connectors and fuse, I am going to make this easy and use the side posts of the Optima battery. Thank you for the pictures, it made it a lot easier.

I am going to wait till Tuesday or Wednesday to install it, I don’t like working on the car in the rain.

00R/T
06-22-2008, 09:00 PM
I went to my audio place and they hooked me up with 8’ of 0, and two 5’ of 4. I then got all of the end connectors and fuse, I am going to make this easy and use the side posts of the Optima battery. Thank you for the pictures, it made it a lot easier.

I am going to wait till Tuesday or Wednesday to install it, I don’t like working on the car in the rain.

What kind of terminals did you get? Are they soldered lugs? If you need a hand, I'm just around the corner and I owe you a few anyway.

ozzy
06-22-2008, 09:49 PM
I have all the parts except for a 0 gauge crimper, I'll go down to the audio shop to use there's

hardwareguy
06-23-2008, 04:42 AM
Sure thing man! Sorry if I came off a bit rude...

I cannot find a maxi fuse holder like that anywhere around here..... is it a national chain? We could use one of those for UPS battery packs.

Great White
06-23-2008, 05:28 AM
How much you figure you got into this mod BJ?? Cash wise. I see you got some blood invested.

If I had to guess, around 50 bucks total.

Sure thing man! Sorry if I came off a bit rude...

I cannot find a maxi fuse holder like that anywhere around here..... is it a national chain? We could use one of those for UPS battery packs.

No prob..........

Holder came from Canadian Tire.

Scarface
06-27-2008, 11:52 PM
I have some #2 gauge wire for when I do the wire upgrades on my cars. What are the bolt hole sizes for the wire terminals did you use?

SilverSpecial6.1
06-28-2008, 12:28 AM
Nice write up! If I decide to go hog wild with a system in the Special I know where to look!

Great White
06-28-2008, 05:42 AM
I have some #2 gauge wire for when I do the wire upgrades on my cars. What are the bolt hole sizes for the wire terminals did you use?

Not trying to be a smart ass, but:

The size of the stud, depending on what it went on to........

Scarface
06-28-2008, 06:57 PM
Would a 50 amp fuse be good since I am planning to replace the wires and engine strap specified in this thread (instead of adding to them) with the #2 gauge wire?

ozzy
06-28-2008, 07:24 PM
Well I used this thread to help me along the way of the Big 3.

Here is the connection from the battery negative to ground, I used 0 gauge with some nice stinger connectors, the stinger connectors allowed me to not need a crimping tool, I suggest them, they are nice.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big301.jpg

I saw a few of the little crap ground straps, yes I changed them to 0 gauge.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big304.jpg

Then I went and used 4 gauge from the alternator to battery positive.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big302.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big303.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big308.jpg

The JL Audio battery connectors made connecting to the Optima real easy.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big306.jpg

Here is the difference between a Chrysler ground strap and an ozzy ground strap

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big3_16.jpg

Here you see how easy the install of the connectors are

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big3_11.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big3_13.jpg

Thanks for the how-to, it took a little while but I like the results.

Hypnotiq
07-01-2008, 06:34 AM
That wire is WAY to thin for any "big three".

Scarface
07-01-2008, 08:22 AM
ozzy, here is an idea that may have helped you in crimping those wires.
Yesterday, I replaced the engine strap in both cars with 2 gauge, and used a set of bolt cutters to crimp the terminals on. Very quick and easy, and you know when to stop pushing the handles together. :D

ozzy
07-01-2008, 06:39 PM
That wire is WAY to thin for any "big three".

I used 1/0, I took a look on the stinger website and they have 3/0, I may need to upgrade again.

ozzy, here is an idea that may have helped you in crimping those wires.
Yesterday, I replaced the engine strap in both cars with 2 gauge, and used a set of bolt cutters to crimp the terminals on. Very quick and easy, and you know when to stop pushing the handles together. :D

Yeah I thought of that also, but the stinger connectors are just dead sexy.

dudley
07-01-2008, 06:53 PM
Yeah I thought of that also, but the stinger connectors are just dead sexy.

I have seen the screws come loose on those connectors ozzy. I would check them once in a while.

ozzy
07-01-2008, 07:25 PM
I have seen the screws come loose on those connectors ozzy. I would check them once in a while.

Already thought of that, I went and put the blue (medium) Locktight on all the connectors, plus I went a little crazy and put it on all the amp connections. I think I'm good.

dudley
07-01-2008, 07:33 PM
Already thought of that, I went and put the blue (medium) Locktight on all the connectors, plus I went a little crazy and put it on all the amp connections. I think I'm good.

Sweet! I had not thought of that! :coolgleamA:

Thestlos
09-25-2008, 01:49 PM
None of the images work...

intrepid
09-29-2008, 01:21 AM
You should be good with ozzys pics.....

Scarface
04-06-2009, 06:43 PM
It's slow progress for me, but I did notice some change in performance...
The scary part about this is that after I replaced the wire going from positive battery to jump post, I found an extra ring terminal still crimped to a little wire (badly corroded). I looked all around and could not find any wire that used to be connected to it.

I actually cannot wait to get new battery terminals so I can ditch the old terminals with wires.

This is a damn cool mod.

7urtle
04-06-2009, 11:09 PM
cant wait till it warms up.

Great White
04-06-2009, 11:14 PM
Picture links repaired. Moved some stuff around in my photobucket a while ago and missed this thread...

:ph34r:

Gorm
04-07-2009, 03:58 PM
Picture links repaired. Moved some stuff around in my photobucket a while ago and missed this thread...

:ph34r:

Awesome! :punk:

I am getting ready to do this project this weekend, and was looking through this thread just yesterday and no pics. :(

CaptainMorgan
04-07-2009, 04:45 PM
Good write up, but I won't be following a few steps due to my more unique install.

I plan on replacing the stock wires, not just supplementing them. I see no reason for that shitty ground strap to stay when you're adding a nice big wire. I think my 4 gauge wire will be plenty for those straps and for the alt wiring.

What amp fuse did you use for the alt?

Great White
04-07-2009, 04:50 PM
Good write up, but I won't be following a few steps due to my more unique install.

I plan on replacing the stock wires, not just supplementing them. I see no reason for that shitty ground strap to stay when you're adding a nice big wire. I think my 4 gauge wire will be plenty for those straps and for the alt wiring.

What amp fuse did you use for the alt?

60a IIRC.

Fuse for the wire gauge, not the load...

CaptainMorgan
04-07-2009, 05:14 PM
60a IIRC.

Fuse for the wire gauge, not the load...

Yes but I guess I should have been asking how many amps should that part of the circuit be able to handle.

I'm just a bit mystified at how a 60 amp setup is enough for potentially a 160 amp alternator. Where is the power draw going through if the alt is being taxed to the maximum?

7urtle
06-21-2009, 09:13 PM
Well I used this thread to help me along the way of the Big 3.

Here is the connection from the battery negative to ground, I used 0 gauge with some nice stinger connectors, the stinger connectors allowed me to not need a crimping tool, I suggest them, they are nice.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big301.jpg

I saw a few of the little crap ground straps, yes I changed them to 0 gauge.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big304.jpg

Then I went and used 4 gauge from the alternator to battery positive.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big302.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big303.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big308.jpg

The JL Audio battery connectors made connecting to the Optima real easy.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big306.jpg

Here is the difference between a Chrysler ground strap and an ozzy ground strap

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big3_16.jpg

Here you see how easy the install of the connectors are

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big3_11.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/ozzy2669/Big3_13.jpg

Thanks for the how-to, it took a little while but I like the results.

how much wire was used?

ozzy
06-21-2009, 09:27 PM
The audio shop that I went to gave me a great deal on some scrap wire they had from other installs, they gave me about 15' total, I just used it up, sorry I just added what I thought was right (it does not always work that way)

CJL
12-04-2009, 10:42 PM
Where did the pics go? :(

skinnyg
12-04-2009, 11:39 PM
you shouldnt really need any, batt to ground, block to frame (and any other teeny grounds you see), and alt to batt

TCPMeta
12-04-2009, 11:46 PM
Just don't mix negative and positive and you should be fine.

300maximilien
12-05-2009, 08:52 AM
Good Old GW and his ...

beeblebrox82
02-11-2010, 09:05 PM
Any chance we can get the original pics fixed?

300maximilien
02-11-2010, 09:25 PM
Most likely not. He is making a statement to the community since he didn't like all the bickering and the new rules here at LHF. I noticed many of his pics were taken down about a month ago.

beeblebrox82
02-11-2010, 09:56 PM
Most likely not. He is making a statement to the community since he didn't like all the bickering and the new rules here at LHF. I noticed many of his pics were taken down about a month ago.

Ah. I hope that's not the case. Making a statement about the degradation of the community by degrading the community. Makes perfect sense. :death:


:whistling: shooting ourselves directly in the foot over here that's for damn sure. Well at least they are still making Intrepids so we'll have plenty of new people coming in... oops.