Minivan Intake Swap

[Chewievette]

After completing the 3.5L upper swap and driving it for a year I am quite impressed with the drivability and reliability, even if a performance edge isnt immediately apparent. One thing that has been bugging me is the abrupt change of flow from the 3.5L upper to the 3.3L lower. I'll take some pics when I get it apart. While I attempted to match the ports, there is still a very noticable change.

The solution is simple, change it. There has been a lot of talk in the past about using an intake from a minivan. It does bolt in and should work fine but the two big issues are throttle body placement and overall height. The throttle body is a simple solution that I will detail later.

The height is an issue, even with the spacers that I installed for the 3.5L swap, I need an extra 2" to clear the minivan manifold. For now, a spare hood with a hole in it will be used, later I'll make something out of fiberglass or carbon fiber. Unfortunately, final installation and testing will have to wait till the weather improves. Snow + Hole-y hood = bad things.

Heres the manifold after I got it home
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/100_2635.jpg

I also found this 58mm throttle body which should be good for some extra pep. Stock is 52mm, for those that dont know.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/100_2373.jpg

To kick off the project, I cleaned the intake with a wire brush and made sure everything would bolt up with the use of some gaskets.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/100_2720.jpg

The throttle body gasket had to be cut out larger to match the throttle body, then the manifold was port matched to the gasket for nice free flowingness. The fuzzyness you see down in there is all the metal shavings stuck to the carbon sludge. When I'm done modifying, I'll have it hot tanked to remove all the nastyness.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/100_2717.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/100_2719.jpg

[EagleESi]

That So Screams, Boost Me!!!!!!

[Chewievette]

I had the manifold off today for another project so I took the opprotunity to bolt on the minivan manifold and check the clearances.

first, the bare manifold bolts in nicely. No clearance issues ...yet
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2768.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2772.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2773.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2776.jpg

Clearance issue #1: Hood, I set the hood down so it was resting directly on the manifold. There is at least 2" gap at the front. This tells me a 2" bulge in the hood will give me all the clearance I need.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2778.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2780.jpg

Clearance issue #2: Throttle body, while the stock intrepid throttle body Does fit, there is absolutely ZERO clearance above it. There is no way my 58mm TB will fit under there as is. I need to think this one over but I will come up with something. At this point, it probably involves a hammer.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2787.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2789.jpg

Clearance issue #3: Intake, Its probably hard to see here but the intake will require a severe bend to clear the heater hoses, tricky but doable.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2790.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2791.jpg

Clearance NON-issue #4: I thought the alternate coil location wouldnt fit, but it does so I'm happy and I'll leave it here. I could put it back to the stock location, but I want the extra clearance over there for the intake pipe and future mods.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2794.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2795.jpg

Obviously there are issues, but I feel they can all be solved with a bit of work. Most of this will have to wait until its warm enough to play with fiberglass, but that gives me time to sort out all the other issues. Stay tuned...

[gr8crash]

In clearance issue #2 if its hitting where i think it is hitting just cut off that corner and re-brace it. I cut into that area for a instake setup i did, not to bad to do. Its an easy cut and weld job.

[DrDodge]

how much extra performance do you expect from this set up?

[Chewievette]

I probably will end up cutting and welding in a new piece for more clearance. Even if I took a hammer to it, it wouldnt give me much clearance and it would look like crap.

Performance gain is yet to be determined. I have already found the 58mm TB gives a respectable gain in power. If you have ever looked at the stock manifold you can see its not the best flowing solution. I am hoping the smoother flow and longer runners will give me more low end torque. Thats what theory says will happen, so I just need to see if they are right.

[Phuckin Phil]

Time for a scoop!! Nice going Dave, can't wait to see how this pans out.

[freezingbelow]

Why not just go with a 2 or 3 inch cowl, instad of just a small piece.

[TCPMeta]

The hood scoop would be best for this.

[Chewievette]

I've already got a solution in mind for the hood. Its going to be cowl induction style, just bump up the center 2" following the existing lines. and why bother with gluing fiberglass to steel, I'm just going to do a full fiberglass hood ...might even skin it with carbon fiber. Have to wait and see whats in the budget this spring.

[Veeb0rg]

might i recommend http://www.torcarr.com/images/Milw6523_21.jpg

[IS300M]

I think you need to make a tubular strut tower brace so you can take out the stamped brace/cowl out completely :)

[01Intrepid]

Looks like you doing a pretty good job..... But what will the difference be or should be with the part from the minivan on???

[Chewievette]

...Performance gain is yet to be determined. I have already found the 58mm TB gives a respectable gain in power. If you have ever looked at the stock manifold you can see its not the best flowing solution. I am hoping the smoother flow and longer runners will give me more low end torque. Thats what theory says will happen, so I just need to see if they are right.

:leaving:

[minivanin]

i personally think the newer intakes are why my mothers '00 is a dog, & why my '94 screamed, it didn't help theres a good 600lbs difference in weight, but the engine just seems lax compared to mine

the newer intake does make more low-end torque, at the cost of top end HP

try a '94 or '95 intake...hell, if you pay for shipping, i'll send you my spare stocker, & it has a 90* TB elbow...instead of that 45* going right into your firewall

plus the offset runners look sexy IMO

heres a pic of mine...that i still have also, which i will crown on the next van i get
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2086000-2086999/2086088_65_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2086000-2086999/2086088_171_full.jpg

[Chewievette]

I can get one from the local yard for $12, thats probably about the same or less than shipping would be. I'll pick one up and give it a shot. Heck, I might even try both and see what the difference is.

[minivanin]

thats cheap, our local yank-n-pull is around 25 for intakes

make sure you get a '94 or '95...they look identical to the older ones, but supposivly something is different, cuz they report the intake manifold is the reason for the 12HP jump in '94 along with the different EFI

[Chewievette]

lol, intrepids claim the same gain from 93 to 94 yet they look completely identical. I'll see what I can find at the yard. They have a ton of caravans so it shouldnt be too difficult.

[minivanin]

yeah, easy way to find a late-2nd gen ('94-'95) van, is the dash...its the nice smooth layout...not the weird choppy box-like set up for the '91-'93s

[SilverSpecial6.1]

Looks like an interesting project, and the second intake with the 90* TB looks like it would be a better fit. Can't wait to see the difference!

[Chewievette]

I have absolutely nothing to do tomorrow and I feel bored already... As long as the weather is decent I'll head over to the yard and see what I can dig up.

[Chewievette]

Dont hate me!!

Just got back from the yard with a few goodies... Betcha cant guess why I brought home that throttle body! Hint: It wasnt originally attached to this intake...
I'm off to go play out in the garage! I'll be back with more later..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2950.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2949.jpg

[SilverSpecial6.1]

Its bigger?

[Gorm]

I don't know whats big about this either.

Keep up the good work though. The stuff your doing looks awesome!

--Gorm

[Chewievette]

Yup, the TB is bigger. Its a 58mm unit which makes it the second in my collection. This is also the only one I have with the bracket to make the cables pull from the inlet side.

Seriously guys, I told you not to let me get bored...

It all started about 2pm like this, Stock intake off in five minutes flat.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2951.jpg

Test fit the bare manifold. This older style is Much smaller than the newer one. Compare pics and you'll see what I mean.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2952.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2953.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2954.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2955.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2956.jpg

Hood clearance was an issue at first but I started hacking the spare mounting lugs off and it soon wasnt a problem anymore. I think it rubs on the hood a bit but I wont know for a few miles.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2960.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2961.jpg

With that issue resolved I installed my new 58mm TB and checked those clearances. The vac tube on the top is very very close (less than 1/4") to the cowl but it doesnt hit. (sorry for the fuzzy pics)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2962.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2965.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2966.jpg

At this point I was starting to think, HEY! This might acctually be possible!!

[Chewievette]

So I continued my efforts...

Pulled the intake back off and got this nasty surprise! Seems it was heavy enough to knock the PCV down into the valve cover. So my only option was to bust out my spare cover and bolt it on. Luckily, even with the cap on its still short enough to fit under the manifold ...just. Next time I'm at the yard I'll buy a van valve cover which should solve the problem entirely ...and I wont have mismatched valve covers anymore.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2967.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2969.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2971.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2973.jpg

So now that I knew everything would fit mechanically, I started to solve all the vacuum and sensor issues.

Step one, block off the EGR. I found its more of a headache to keep in so I delete it from all my manifold swaps.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2974.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2975.jpg

At this point I got caught up in the "It really does fit!" frenzy so I stopped taking pictures of every step.

Basically, I took all the stock vac trees off the manifold then replaced them with what acctually works.

Furthest twards the radiator is the PCV valve, no brainer, plug it in and fab a hose to it. I'm sure you could use one big long hose but I used what I had.

I used the vac tree from the '96 manifold so I could get all the hook ups in one place. Brake booster, fuel pressure regulator, cruise control, and uh... that other one.

The next port twards the firewall has an adapter and my IAT sensor. You OBD1ers wont need this so do what you will with the hole.

Lastly is the MAP sensor, I couldnt find a way to secure my bolt in style sensor to this manifold so I used the screw in "block" style one. I spent a few hours making an adapter harness to plug this one in as the connectors are obviously different. If you should need an adapter since you find yourself crazy enough to attempt this, let me know and I'll make you one dirt cheap.

You might also notice I have an EGR solenoid hooked up to the valve, I dont need it since I dont run an EGR system, as I hope you remember, but with the solenoid plugged in, the CEL goes off once in a while cuz it thinks its working.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2984.jpg

and here is the finished product!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2979.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2980.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2981.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2982.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2983.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2985.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_2986.jpg

And this is the part you acctually want to see! A super awesome video of the first run! I didnt rev it up cuz the parents were inside trying to sleep. and there is no performance evaluation at this time because theres a blizzard going on outside. Next time its dry, I'll get some new vids and that performance report. For now... good night!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/th_100_2987.jpg

[SilverSpecial6.1]

Awesome! I can't wait to see the results!

[minivanin]

sweet, i knew it would fit pretty good

i can't wait to see if it performs well

someone with the standard LH intake should try the caravan intake swap & find out...preferably dragstrip #s if possible

the caravan intake should blow the LH intake out of the water

[Veeb0rg]

you provide the intake, I got the trep.. :)

one night at capital should solve all questions

[minivanin]

haha, done...tho...we should previously set up the caravan intake (& clearance it for the hood) to be ready to bolt on & go as possible...i have a spare 52mm TB also...so really, the sensors & the vacuum stuff...we got to plan ahead of time, to make the intake as quick as a swap as possible...its what...only 4 10mm bolts...

[Chewievette]

Too bad y'all arent near by, I've had these manifolds off and on so often I could swap it out in ten minutes, less if I have decent lighting and all the tools ready to go.

[TCPMeta]

Are you using bolts or studs and nuts to mount the intake manis?

[Chewievette]

Stock hardware, which is bolts. You cant see it in any of the pics but I am using the plenum brace from the minivan which takes some of the load off the flange.

Curiously, the older minivans and 3.5L intrepids use studs to mount the throttle body while the later minivans and 3.3L intrepids use bolts.

Still no performance info since there is about 1/4" of ICE on all the roads around here. I can break the tires loose, but so can soccer mommy in her overloaded windstar. It hasnt been this bad in a while, I saw four cars in the ditch on my way into work this morning and I'm only 5 miles away. I side stepped Every corner on the way to and from work. Usually the salt trucks get out and take care of the ice by noon, but not today. Also, its a very strange sensation to break the tires loose under moderate throttle at 40mph! and dont even think about downshifting coming down that big hill.

...Devan, clear off the couch! I'm coming to Visit..

[EagleESi]

Ight, See ya in a few!

[Veeb0rg]

i have 2 58mm throttle bodies.. :)

[Chewievette]

i have 2 58mm throttle bodies.. :)

Hey... so do I! and no, mine are Not going on a 3.5L manifold. but I do have a plan to use them on a special manifold. Dont know if I'll ever get around to building it, but I do have the cad files drawn up.

[minivanin]

i've often thought about having the raised 3.3L V6 & edging grounded off for a flat intake manifold face, then cut a hole & mount a Eaton supercharger right to the intake plenum...

[DrDodge]

DUDE!!! that is soo cool,,,,

[Chewievette]

Thats an interesting idea... How would you deal with the dual inlets? weld up the stock one?

Speaking of the raised lettering, mine seems to be rubbing on the hood quite a bit. Looks like I need to do some persuasive modification.

[Gorm]

:clap::clap::clap:

[minivanin]

Thats an interesting idea... How would you deal with the dual inlets? weld up the stock one?

Speaking of the raised lettering, mine seems to be rubbing on the hood quite a bit. Looks like I need to do some persuasive modification.

leave the TB on there & keep the throttle shut, lol i dunno, i'll find out if i ever do it

[Veeb0rg]

easiest way would be just to cut a peice of sheet metal out in the shape of a throttlebody and use a throttlebody gasket

[minivanin]

i was thinking tho...keep the throttle body & use it as a relief/bypass valve of some sort....& i'm not talking about a BOV

[Chewievette]

So whats the difference between a relief / bypass valve and a recirculating blow off valve? If I was doing it, I'd probably hack off the TB neck on the manifold and weld a plate over it.

I just got back from running errands and while still not dry out I did get on it a bit and it feels very strong. I cant wait to be able to do a full throttle launch! I took a couple videos of part throttle launches and still got quite a bit of wheel spin. It does sound a bit different with the intake closer to me. So far, I'm very happy with it. I'll keep you posted..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/th_100_2989.jpg

[minivanin]

sounds very similar to my vans intake....sweeeeet

[Veeb0rg]

So whats the difference between a relief / bypass valve and a recirculating blow off valve?

A compressor bypass valve (CBV) also known as a compressor relief valve is a vacuum-actuated valve designed to release pressure in the intake system of a turbocharged or centrifugally supercharged car when the throttle is lifted or closed. This air pressure is re-circulated back into the non-pressurized end of the intake (before the turbo) but after the mass airflow sensor.

A blowoff valve, (BOV, sometimes hooter valve, dump valve) does basically the same thing, but releases the air to the atmosphere

[SilverSpecial6.1]

Sounds pretty nice!

[DrDodge]

I agree sounds strong,,, nice work,,,

[minivanin]

any updates??

[Chewievette]

Yeah, I put the new cradle bushings in which raised the whole subframe by about 1/2" This meant my hood wouldnt shut anymore so I shimmed the latch and it shut but still rubbed. The rattling noises kept getting worse so I eventually found that the vac port on top of the TB was hitting the cowl. and since its been nothing but snow storms every other day, I dont have the time to fab a solution. So this morning I pulled it off till I can fix it right. It will be going on back on, just have to wait for some warmer weather.

but until it got pulled, I have nothing bad to say about its performance. I was rather impressed with the stronger feel.

[minivanin]

man, you must be getting tons of lake effect stuff up there, hell 2 days ago it was 72 here...sunday is going to be 47 & windy, with a low of 15, monday is suppost to be like 31...blech, with a low of 18...i had to drain the water out of Malibu4, since i cannot afford to buy anti-freeze...doesn't matter anyways, the car ain't ready to go back on the street yet

i only like it being butt-cold out when its snowing, plus it be nice to have some consistant temps

[Matt86]

Awesome work! Sounds like my Sport wagon, that 3.3 sounds soo mean. My Intrepids 3.3 was soo quiet.

[Chewievette]

the weather keeps tempting to be warmer so I'll start tinkering with this project again. I really want to get the '98 installed to see what the difference is. A while back I port matched the neck to the throttle body but today I noticed how small the runners are. My intrepid manifolds line up pretty well with the Felpro gaskets so I started port matching the runners to the gasket. I didnt get very far but I'm in no rush, so this will take a while.

More cleaning and polishing on the top side
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_3668.jpg

Half way done with the first step. Notice how much material needs to be taken off..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_3670.jpg

I am starting by taking the corners out to the edge then I'll make another pass to connect the dots. I am only porting 1-2 inches into the runner because I dont have the tools to go much further, and it shouldnt matter too much yet.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_3672.jpg

Soon it should be warm enough to start fiberglassing! I'll be doing a cowl hood to clear the intake and a couple other parts that some of you might be interested in...:leaving:

[TCPMeta]

You always surprise me with your mods chewie.

[Chewievette]

If you think thats suprising, check back in a week or two...

[Chewievette]

More porting today... Got all the corners done and started in on the walls. I did one of each today, I'm hoping to do a little bit every day till its done. Then theres a little bit more I want to do on the neck, and maybe clean up some of the exterior seams.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_3678.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/100_3680.jpg

[Chewievette]

I'm hoping to tackle the hood issue in the next couple of weeks. but for some inspiration I decided to throw the early manifold back on and drive that for a while. The ugly hood gap should get me motivated to do something ...probably.

It didnt take long to reinstall but I took the opportunity to massage the sheet metal a bit and get some extra clearance. I put a couple dents into the cowl for the throttle body and flattened out the hood structure a bit. I'm sure my neighbors loved the racket but it didnt take too long. The arrangement is slightly different than last time but its basically the same, I only had to run out and get a couple feet of tubing for the PCV.

The good news is that it definitely gives some extra kick which is always awesome. This isnt a mod for the masses since its not a bolt in deal and I still need mod the hood for more clearance. I have it shimmed up about 1/4" to keep it from hitting but I want to get a cowl on it to get rid of that fun gap.

I crushed and folded over the vac port on the TB to provide more clearance, you can also see the nice dents that I made.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0133.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0134.jpg

The black paint is so I can quickly ID where the contact point is.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0135.jpg

Completed installation.. The air filter is actually quite crammed in there, I need to replace it so I'll look for a smaller one. This shot should show you why I need to move the battery, Hot air induction is totally overrated:eek2:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0130.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0131.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0132.jpg

Thats all for now folks, more coming soon...

[04TrepEs]

Too bad on the otherside of the plenum there wasn't a place to run the intake there, seems as tho it was molded for one but not actually cut out, That would have been so much easier to run the intake! Can't wait to see how this turns out, Maybe you can relocate the battery to the other side?

[Chewievette]

Maybe you can relocate the battery to the other side?

Its going to the trunk, I need the other side for other fun stuff..

[Chewievette]

I took some pics of the completed install today, since I know you are all so concerned...:sleep1: and I'm bored ...so deal with it!:tooth:

Hey man, your hood is popped! :no:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0139.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0140.jpg


What color should I paint the intake??
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0142.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0151.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0152.jpg

Plumber's Nightmare or Chewie's Wet Dream??
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0143.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0145.jpg

Space is few and far between... Remind me to get smaller hands:dots:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0147.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0148.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0149.jpg

I took the manifold to the grinder to try freeing up some clearance ...it was almost successful.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0155.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0156.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0157.jpg

Yes, it really is taller...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0153.jpg

OMG!! its the engine AND the car all in one shot ...I think this is a first for me:punk:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/chewievette/Cars/My%20Car/Minivan%20Intake/101_0154.jpg

[SilverSpecial6.1]

I can't believe how much room the 3.3 engine bay has over the 3.5 and the block isnt that much bigger!

How does it feel with that intake?

[Chewievette]

I can feel a bit more kick, tires are a little more willing to turn over. Drive ability is a bit more fun... I approve. I dont really want to remove it so I'll just have to fix the hood.

You'd have more space under the hood too if you got rid of all the extra stuff.:rolleyes2:

[Chewievette]

Bad news folks, I found a potentially disappointing side effect of this mod... During my 15min drive to work today I managed a measly 17.8mpg! I dont remember driving any harder than normal but its a probability with the new parts and all.. On the drive home (same distance:rolleyes2:) I took it slow and actually tried to observe all those "hints for better mpg's", accel slowly, brake early, blah, blah... and I bumped it up to 20.2mpg(reset before driving) Which is only slightly better than my normal everyday average for the last few months (19.9mpg). So I'm not sure what to call this one yet, I'll continue driving as normally as I know how and get back with an update this weekend, hopefully it will even back out.

[SilverSpecial6.1]

you usually get one thing and not the other :( better performance, not so better mpg or better mpg and not so better performance. Its like suspension. You can't have a floaty ride and expect to do the slalom at 70 mph :D its not fair :(

[DrDodge]

ok,, so ,, still trying it out? or, gonna go back with something else?

[Chewievette]

Its still on there... I have a bit of a snafu on my hands at the moment, idk what my next move is but I'll update when I can.

The driveability is different but I cant quite place exactly how. Low-mid range torque has come up a bit, if I leave it in a higher gear and put the pedal down I can feel the push a bit more. Off the line is a little more tire squealing fun ...still cant roast the tires but I'm fine with that, for now.

[TorontoFireCaptain]

A quick question - the plenum you are using is from 03, the one from later years is supposed to be a better flowing, and increase the van's HP about 12 or so HP, with only the manifold change.
Have you tried one of those from a 3.8, with the 3.8 TB.
I've been fooling with one on my 93 Caravan, but having problems with the EGR set-up. (I'm afraid to monkey too much with it, since the bolts that hold it to the exhaust are almost non-existant)

[Chewievette]

I have the 93 on the car now, I didnt know the later "early" ones where any different. My other manifold is from a 96 but I have not been able to run it yet due to cowl interference issues. Are you talking about the 93 vs 96 or is there another manifold in between?

Current Throttle body is a 58mm from the 3.8L, I'd like to stick the 62mm trep TB on there and see what happens but I would need to fab up a funky bracket and extend the cables, maybe later.

I stopped playing with EGR a long time ago, mine is blocked off and unplugged. The CEL is on because of it but I hardly notice the light any more.

[TorontoFireCaptain]

I have the 93 on the car now, I didnt know the later "early" ones where any different. My other manifold is from a 96 but I have not been able to run it yet due to cowl interference issues. Are you talking about the 93 vs 96 or is there another manifold in between?

Current Throttle body is a 58mm from the 3.8L, I'd like to stick the 62mm trep TB on there and see what happens but I would need to fab up a funky bracket and extend the cables, maybe later.

I stopped playing with EGR a long time ago, mine is blocked off and unplugged. The CEL is on because of it but I hardly notice the light any more.

I got this from a Caravan site a while ago:
Engine Years Used Horsepower (bhp) Torque (lb-ft) Notes


3.3L 1990-1993 150 @ 4800 RPM 180 @ 3600 RPM A 147hp version was used in Dynasty and New Yorker.

3.8L 1991-1993 150 @ 4400 RPM 213 @ 3600 RPM Used in Fifth Avenue and Imperial.

3.3L 1994-1995 162 @ 4800 RPM 194 @ 3600 RPM Power increases for 1994 via revised intake plenum.

3.8L 1994-1995 162 @ 4400 RPM 213 @ 3600 RPM Power increase for 1994 via revised intake plenum.
No longer used in cars.

3.3L 1996-2000 158 @ 4850 RPM 203 @ 3250 RPM Revised intake and exhaust for enhanced torque.
Horsepower drops slightly but torque increases and peaks earlier.

3.8L 1996-1997 166 @ 4300 RPM 227 @ 3100 RPM Revised intake and exhaust systems for enhanced power and torque.

3.8L 1998-2000 180 @ 4300 RPM 240 @ 3100 RPM Significant boost in power and torque.

3.3L 2001-on 180 @ 5000 RPM 210 @ 4000 RPM Extensively revised with a new variable intake system, higher compression ratio, and new piston heads.

3.8L 2001-on 215 @ 5000 RPM 245 @ 4000 RPM

Not sure how accurate it is, but assuming they fool like we do, it is probably close.
In your case, you might be able to fit one of the newer 2001 intakes so that the TB is at the front maybe?.
Plenum height looks a bit high though maybe not as high as the older ones.

[Veeb0rg]

so it looks like the 98-00 is the one to find.

[Chewievette]

Problem with 98-2000 is you need to hack a good size chunk out of the cowl to fit the intake, and due to the height you need to cut a rather large hole in the hood. The problem is that the rear brace needs to be removed and that will weaken the hood to the point that a simple bond-on bulge just wont work. It needs to be a fully composite hood. Not a complete tragedy but still a pain.

2001+ intakes are specifically made to match the new heads, to fit them on the engine you also need to swap the heads, which I *think* will work. but I'd like to flow check the heads and see which is better.

[TorontoFireCaptain]

So, is it the actual ports that don't match, or just the physical size that won't fit between the earlier heads/valve covers?
Been wondering if one would fit on my Caravan, but still leaning towards the 95 one.

[Chewievette]

The valley on the newer heads is narrower, the ports are taller ..basically, everything is different. I dont see how you would be able to swap just the intake. I suppose with a helluva adapter it could be possible but I think its more trouble than its worth, you could make a better flowing intake from scratch with less effort.

Next time an 01+ engine shows up at the yard I'm pulling the heads to have flow tested, I might pull the intake too. If its a 3.8L, I'll just pull the whole thing to bring home and play with...lol

[TorontoFireCaptain]

The valley on the newer heads is narrower, the ports are taller ..basically, everything is different. I dont see how you would be able to swap just the intake. I suppose with a helluva adapter it could be possible but I think its more trouble than its worth, you could make a better flowing intake from scratch with less effort.

Next time an 01+ engine shows up at the yard I'm pulling the heads to have flow tested, I might pull the intake too. If its a 3.8L, I'll just pull the whole thing to bring home and play with...lol

There are a few 3.8 01+ engines in one of my yards here, but to fool with it in my van would be not really worth it, considering it has 300,000 miles overall.
I'll just stick with the intake probably.

[minivanin]

HTF are you barely getting 20mpg???

i used to beat the hell out my van all the time, averaged 23mpg summer, 20-21 winter

it had 3 modes, idle, WOT & cruise

BTW i did run 93 octane, but i don't think that makes much of a difference

[Chewievette]

ive been running it like I always do, mostly city with just a touch of highway and I average 20mpg. It fluctuates quite a bit depending on my chosen driving style but 23-26 is possible if I think about it.

[TorontoFireCaptain]

So, I got the 3.8 plenum from the 98 on the Carqavan & ran it today, It definitly has better throttle response than the stock 1993 3.3, and it would appear to give about 2 MPG better at cruise, though tough to tell today due to the high windy conditions.
Had to do a bit of creative drilling to accomodate the various sensors that were deleted in the 98; took your advice and blocked the EGR - we'll see what happens next year come emissions testing time.

[TCPMeta]

You're running a 3.8L plenum on a 2nd gen?

[I275westcoastflorida]

^^He said on the Caravan.

[TCPMeta]

Oh ok.

[Chewievette]

So, I got the 3.8 plenum from the 98 on the Carqavan & ran it today, It definitly has better throttle response than the stock 1993 3.3, and it would appear to give about 2 MPG better at cruise, though tough to tell today due to the high windy conditions.
Had to do a bit of creative drilling to accomodate the various sensors that were deleted in the 98; took your advice and blocked the EGR - we'll see what happens next year come emissions testing time.

Congrats on the mod! let me know how it works out for you.
Sensors are always a problem when switching manifolds, I've got half a dozen "adapter" harnesses just for such occasions.

[TorontoFireCaptain]

Congrats on the mod! let me know how it works out for you.
Sensors are always a problem when switching manifolds, I've got half a dozen "adapter" harnesses just for such occasions.

Wiring wasn't a problem, it was just the vacuum line locations.
Had to do some creative drilling to put all the "T"s in place, and reroute the PCV hose.
Also had to make some minor bends to the brake lines to clear the TB, since it comes off at a 45 instead of a 90, so the lines interferred.
I was looking at the 2001 version, I could be wrong, since you've obviousl;y had more experience with them than me, but it looks like it would fit OK, except the TB is on the wrong end. Also, it sort of looks like the 3L type of set-up, with the 6 "legs" - 3 on each side - rather than all 6 runners together. That TB looks to be huge too.
I may have to take one off to fool with it.